Interview with Paul Brunton at Chengelput
- mahendramangalam
- Nov 23, 2024
- 8 min read
Swamigal arrived at Chengelput in the beginning of January, 1931. The citizens
of Chengelput, who were awaiting his visit for a long time, were extremely happy. All
gathered to have his darshan everyday, irrespective of caste or creed, the rich and the
poor, the elderly and the youngsters alike. During his stay in the town, he gave lectures
every night in the local Siva temple.
Paul Brunton, an Englishman who had emigrated to America, was traveling
around our country meeting with Yogis in order to obtain their blessings. After
completing his travels in northern India, he came to Chennai with the intention to tour
south India. He brought with him, from England, an introduction letter to Sri
K.S.Venkataramani, a famous English writer residing in Chennai. Later on, Paul Brunton
praised Sri Venkataramani highly in his book ‘A Search in Secret India’.
When he met K.S.Venkataramani, he expressed his desire to meet genuine yogis
of South India and to not waste time with pseudo yogis. Venkataramani told him that
yogis cannot be found out in the open and that moreover they cannot be easily
approached by a European. However, the next day Venkataramani met Paul Brunton at
the latter’s residence and said to him, “Sri Sankaracharya of the Kanchi Sankaracharya
Mutt, who is the religious head of South India, is now camping at Chengleput. I got this
information last night. He is my benefactor and I seek his spiritual guidance. He is the
ultimate embodiment of penance and a true sannyasin. Though he may not be a yogi, he
knows the truth and intricacies of the path of yoga. He has traveled the cities and villages
in this country. People revere him and bow to him, wherever he goes. I think that you
may get some useful instructions from him. His camp at Chengleput, is about 35 miles
from Madras. But it is doubtful if he will grant you an interview. Yet I shall attempt to
help you”. Brunton told the novelist that he would gladly accompany him to Chengleput
the next day.
The next day Brunton and Venkataramani left for Chengleput. On the way,
Venkataramani described Swamigal’s simple way of life, the biography and greatness of
the Adi Acharya of the mutt, Sri Sankara and his Advaitic philosophy. Brunton listened
with rapture to all of the above as well as to the history of the mutt. Both of them
reached the house where Swamigal was staying. Venkataramani requested the manager of
the Mutt for an interview. But the manager said it was not possible to obtain an interview
as thousands were already waiting and moreover he was a European. Later
Venkataramani himself requested Swamigal for an audience for Paul Brunton, at which
point Swamigal gave him permission to bring Brunton before him. Then Venkataramani
conveyed the information to Brunton whose joy knew no bounds. The Englishman
brought flower garlands, fruits in a tray and entered the house where Swamigal was
staying. At the far end, there was a small lamp burning. In the dimly lit room, Brunton
beheld the short figure standing in the shadows. Hesitantly, he slowly offered the
garlands and fruits to Swamigal and prostrated before him. He slowly thanked Swamigal
in English for granting this audience. Which Swamigal accepted with his usual bright
smiling face. Then the conversation between the two of them started. Paul Brunton
started to ask questions about the future of the world and Swamigal replied to them.
Venktaramani acted as the translator for the conversation between Paul Brunton and our
Swamigal.
Question: When will the world’s political and economic situation improve and
become equitable.
Answer: It is not an easy job to change the world situation. It has to happen in its
own time. When world’s super powers are spending enormous amounts of money
to manufacture weapons of mass destruction, how can the world improve?
Q: Will there be any useful outcome from the talks that are currently taking place
to eradicate weapons?
A: Even if your ships are torn apart or your machine guns get rusted, the fighting
will not stop. People will take the sticks and start fighting.
Q: Then, what do you think is the way to obtain world peace?
A: Countries should understand each other spiritually. Similarly, the rich and
powerful should recognize the poor. Only then can goodwill towards each other
be generated. Goodwill created thus will bring peace amongst countries and
benefit to all.
Q: If we see the world filled with turmoil and injustice, it makes us wonder
whether or not God really cares about people
A: That is not the correct way to think. A patient man will silently think deeply
about the future. God will appear in the form of a human and solve all these
problems. The more the discord amongst empires increase, the more the bad
activities of the general public increase and the more the poor people suffer, the
chances of a turnaround happening becomes higher. A human being with godly
powers will appear in the world. Through him, a resolution to all these problems
will be seen. Such a great person may be born in any country. The changes in the
world will happen step by step in accordance with physical laws. The faster the
agnostic beliefs rise and the faster the miseries and sorrows of the people arise,
the faster the man to save this world will also appear.
Q: So, do you think that such a person will arise in our times also?
A: Yes. It is possible that this avatar might be born in our country. It has also
become necessary for such an avatar. The darkness of ignorance is spreading fast
in the world.
Q: Do you think the people of the world have hit rock bottom?
A: No. There is Atma Shakthi (Spiritual power) in every human and this will
take him to God finally.
Q: But demons have entered the hearts of human beings in the western world.
Their actions prove that. What do you think of that?
A: Do not blame the human race like that. They act according to the
circumstances in which they are born into. In reality, no one is a bad person. It is
the circumstances that change them and make them act in certain ways. This is
true for both eastern and western worlds. A higher philosophy should spread
across the world. They should change the perception that what is being seen and
heard is the truth. Instead, humans should comprehend the existence of a power
higher than human capacity, that of God. Only then, a solution to the world’s problems can be found.
Q: So, you think it is possible to enforce piety and belief in God into the hearts of
the human race in this world?
A: Yes. I think it is possible. Ultimately, this is the only thing that will satisfy
everyone. The fruits will not disappear that easily. The more the number of people
with spiritual power in this world, the faster the thought will spread. The people
of India treat godly persons and saints with great respect. If other countries of this
world follow this practice and treat saints with respect and practice their
teachings, there will definitely be world peace. Currently there is both good and
bad prevalent in the world. I believe that coming generations would follow the
high points of their respective civilizations and be respected citizens of their
society.
Q: How many years have you been pontiff of this Peetam?
A: I became a pontiff in the year 1907 at the age of 12.
Q: I think you do not stay for long at the mutt’s headquarters. Am I right?
A: Yes. I have been traveling from village to village in the past fifteen years in
this state. My yatra is progressing slowly. I plan to travel to Kasi.
Brunton now starts to converse with our Swamigal on the topic for which
he has come here. Swamigal asked Brunton about the sannyasins and yogis that
he has met in India so far. He explained in detail his experiences with the sadhus
and yogis so far and then started his questioning.
Q: I want to meet a yogi / saint who are experience in yoga and one who can
show me the way to attain its benefits. I do not even want to talk to him. You may
think that I am desirous of something above my station. Can you help me in this
matter?
A: There is nothing wrong in wanting to practice the path of yoga. Your shraddha
will benefit you in this path. One needs extreme will power and determination to
go this path and I think you have them both. There is a light lit in your heart and
that will show you the path for which you are seeking.
Q: I am not able to completely understand what you said. I have been thinking
about this for a long time. Ancient rishis of India have said that God resides in
our hearts itself. Can you explain this for me?
A: God exists everywhere. One cannot think of him as just existing in our hearts.
He is carrying this whole creation.
Q: Can you tell me what path should I take?
A: Continue with your travels and at the end of it , contemplate on all the yogis
and sadhus you had met in your travels. Whomsoever you think, you can relate to
in your heart, approach him. He will show you your path.
Q: What should I do if I do not find anyone that is satisfactory to my heart?
A: If you do not find any one satisfactory, then you should continue your efforts
by yourself. Spend every day in meditation. Stop thinking about silly and trivial
matters and engage your mind to think lovingly about higher things. Think often
about your atma and that will help you in your sadhana. The best time to practice
this is early in the morning. You can meditate in the evenings also. Both the times
are peaceful and appropriate for meditation without interruption.
Q: If I do not get any results from my personal efforts, will you help me?
A: I am a head of a public institution. Most of my time from dawn to night is
spent in the official duties of this institution. Hence, you have to go in search of a
Guru who can spend time with you.
Q: I am told that it is very hard to find a real / true Acharya. It is especially
difficult for a European to meet such an Acharya?
A: There are true Acharyas in this world and it is possible to meet them.
Q: Then, can you send me to a true Acharya?
A: I know of two such Acharyas. One of them is living in a dense forest in the
southern part of this country, but in silence. Very few people can see him and no
European has ever seen him so far. I could send you to him, but he might refuse to
see you.
Q: I am eager to know about the other person. Who is he?
A: The other person lives in the country. He is jnani and you can seek him.
Q: Can I obtain more information about him?
A: He is called ‘Maharishi’. He lives in the place called Thiruvannamalai situated
in the North Arcot district. If necessary, I will give you details to reach him.
Q: I am very much obligated to you. Another person has come to see me from the
same place. I have pulled you away for a long time from your numerous and
important official duties. Please excuse me for that. Please give me leave.
A: Yes. I presume that you will definitely go to Thiruvannamalai.
Q: I was planning to complete my South India tour today and had already made
arrangements to leave tomorrow. What can I do in this situation?
A: You can decide to change your arrangements and leave South India after
meeting with Maharishi. Do not worry. Your desires will be fulfilled.
Paul Brunton promised Swamigal to seek Maharishi, meet him before leaving
India.
The above is an excerpt from “Pujya Sri Mahaswamy Divya Charitram” by Sri Sambamoorthi Shastrigal, Sri Kuppuswamy Iyer, “Sollin Selvan” P. N. Parasuraman – 1957
Vijaya Yatra
The peetathipathis of Sri Kanchi Kamakoti Peetam had taken upon themselves as part of their pontifical duties, traveling around, giving audience to people, giving them advice and encouraging their spiritual growth.
Our Swamigal also wanted to take on such a journey after becoming the Peetathipathi.
